TOPIC:

I am not a member of this list, so please reply to me direct (and to the
cc recipients of this message). Thanks.

Whilst I am the ASN.1 Rapporteur, I do not know TTCN well enough to give
a correct answer to the attached query.

It is my guess that somewhere in the TTCN Recommendation it says that
when ASN.1 identifiers are used in normal TTCN expressions, all hyphens
in thos identifiers are converted to underscore. Thus in the example in
the enquiry, "asn-idl" would always be asn minus idl, never an ASN.1
identifier. (Note this causes no ambiguity because ASN.1 does not use
underscore.) I suppose it is also possible that TTCN requires
white-space around the hyphen if it is to be treated as minus, but this
seems less likely.

John L

--
Prof John Larmouth
Larmouth T&PDS Ltd
(Training and Protocol Development Services)
1 Blueberry Road
Bowdon This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Cheshire WA14 3LS Tel: +44 161 928 1605
England Fax: +44 161 928 8069

Hi,

Exactly this is the reason TTCN converts hyphens in identifiers to an underscore. So the ASN.1 identifier "asn-idl" shall be imported and referenced as "asn_idl" within TTCN (see subclause D1.1.1 in TTCN-3, ES 201 873-1) but it is the same in TTCN-2.

Best Regards, György
Szia, Gyuri
============================================
dr. György RÉTHY
Ericsson Communications Systems Hungary Lim.
Conformance Center
tel.: +36 1 437-7006; fax: +36 1 437-7767
mobile: +36 30 297-7862
e-mail: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
intranet: conformancelab.ericsson.se
personal: www.r.eth.ericsson.se/~ethgry
============================================


>

---

Original Message

---

>From: John Larmouth [This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.]
>Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 1:40 PM
>To: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
>Subject: [Fwd: ASN.1 Emquiry]
>
>
>I am not a member of this list, so please reply to me direct
>(and to the
>cc recipients of this message). Thanks.
>
>Whilst I am the ASN.1 Rapporteur, I do not know TTCN well
>enough to give
>a correct answer to the attached query.
>
>It is my guess that somewhere in the TTCN Recommendation it says that
>when ASN.1 identifiers are used in normal TTCN expressions, all hyphens
>in thos identifiers are converted to underscore. Thus in the
>example in
>the enquiry, "asn-idl" would always be asn minus idl, never an ASN.1
>identifier. (Note this causes no ambiguity because ASN.1 does not use
>underscore.) I suppose it is also possible that TTCN requires
>white-space around the hyphen if it is to be treated as minus, but this
>seems less likely.
>
>John L
>
>--
> Prof John Larmouth
> Larmouth T&PDS Ltd
> (Training and Protocol Development Services)
> 1 Blueberry Road
> Bowdon This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
> Cheshire WA14 3LS Tel: +44 161 928 1605
> England Fax: +44 161 928 8069
>

Thanks Gyorgy.

Are the hyphens also changed to underline in a $ASN1_... and
$End_ASN1... section as well?

(Just asking for completeness.)

John L

"Gyorgy Rethy (ETH)" wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Exactly this is the reason TTCN converts hyphens in identifiers to an underscore. So the ASN.1 identifier "asn-idl" shall be imported and referenced as "asn_idl" within TTCN (see subclause D1.1.1 in TTCN-3, ES 201 873-1) but it is the same in TTCN-2.
>
> Best Regards, György
> Szia, Gyuri
> ============================================
> dr. György RÉTHY
> Ericsson Communications Systems Hungary Lim.
> Conformance Center
> tel.: +36 1 437-7006; fax: +36 1 437-7767
> mobile: +36 30 297-7862
> e-mail: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
> intranet: conformancelab.ericsson.se
> personal: www.r.eth.ericsson.se/~ethgry
> ============================================
>
> >

---

Original Message

---

> >From: John Larmouth [This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.]
> >Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 1:40 PM
> >To: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
> >Subject: [Fwd: ASN.1 Emquiry]
> >
> >
> >I am not a member of this list, so please reply to me direct
> >(and to the
> >cc recipients of this message). Thanks.
> >
> >Whilst I am the ASN.1 Rapporteur, I do not know TTCN well
> >enough to give
> >a correct answer to the attached query.
> >
> >It is my guess that somewhere in the TTCN Recommendation it says that
> >when ASN.1 identifiers are used in normal TTCN expressions, all hyphens
> >in thos identifiers are converted to underscore. Thus in the
> >example in
> >the enquiry, "asn-idl" would always be asn minus idl, never an ASN.1
> >identifier. (Note this causes no ambiguity because ASN.1 does not use
> >underscore.) I suppose it is also possible that TTCN requires
> >white-space around the hyphen if it is to be treated as minus, but this
> >seems less likely.
> >
> >John L
> >
> >--
> > Prof John Larmouth
> > Larmouth T&PDS Ltd
> > (Training and Protocol Development Services)
> > 1 Blueberry Road
> > Bowdon This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
> > Cheshire WA14 3LS Tel: +44 161 928 1605
> > England Fax: +44 161 928 8069
> >

--
Prof John Larmouth
Larmouth T&PDS Ltd
(Training and Protocol Development Services)
1 Blueberry Road
Bowdon This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Cheshire WA14 3LS Tel: +44 161 928 1605
England Fax: +44 161 928 8069

Yes this would be useful to know
It would seem the right thing to do
Imagine doing search and replace on TTCN mp files
where in certain sections i.e. $ASN1 ... $End_ASN1...
hyphens are ok but later on in the same file i.e expressions
they are not

ideally youd want to just replace all

Thanks for the help
Harshad

---

Original Message

---

From: John Larmouth [This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.]
Sent: 26 February 2002 17:41
To: Gyorgy Rethy (ETH)
Cc: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.; 'This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.'
Subject: Re: [Fwd: ASN.1 Emquiry]


Thanks Gyorgy.

Are the hyphens also changed to underline in a $ASN1_... and
$End_ASN1... section as well?

(Just asking for completeness.)

John L

"Gyorgy Rethy (ETH)" wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Exactly this is the reason TTCN converts hyphens in identifiers to an
underscore. So the ASN.1 identifier "asn-idl" shall be imported and
referenced as "asn_idl" within TTCN (see subclause D1.1.1 in TTCN-3, ES 201
873-1) but it is the same in TTCN-2.
>
> Best Regards, György
> Szia, Gyuri
> ============================================
> dr. György RÉTHY
> Ericsson Communications Systems Hungary Lim.
> Conformance Center
> tel.: +36 1 437-7006; fax: +36 1 437-7767
> mobile: +36 30 297-7862
> e-mail: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
> intranet: conformancelab.ericsson.se
> personal: www.r.eth.ericsson.se/~ethgry
> ============================================
>
> >

---

Original Message

---

> >From: John Larmouth [This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.]
> >Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 1:40 PM
> >To: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
> >Subject: [Fwd: ASN.1 Emquiry]
> >
> >
> >I am not a member of this list, so please reply to me direct
> >(and to the
> >cc recipients of this message). Thanks.
> >
> >Whilst I am the ASN.1 Rapporteur, I do not know TTCN well
> >enough to give
> >a correct answer to the attached query.
> >
> >It is my guess that somewhere in the TTCN Recommendation it says that
> >when ASN.1 identifiers are used in normal TTCN expressions, all hyphens
> >in thos identifiers are converted to underscore. Thus in the
> >example in
> >the enquiry, "asn-idl" would always be asn minus idl, never an ASN.1
> >identifier. (Note this causes no ambiguity because ASN.1 does not use
> >underscore.) I suppose it is also possible that TTCN requires
> >white-space around the hyphen if it is to be treated as minus, but this
> >seems less likely.
> >
> >John L
> >
> >--
> > Prof John Larmouth
> > Larmouth T&PDS Ltd
> > (Training and Protocol Development Services)
> > 1 Blueberry Road
> > Bowdon This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
> > Cheshire WA14 3LS Tel: +44 161 928 1605
> > England Fax: +44 161 928 8069
> >

--
Prof John Larmouth
Larmouth T&PDS Ltd
(Training and Protocol Development Services)
1 Blueberry Road
Bowdon This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Cheshire WA14 3LS Tel: +44 161 928 1605
England Fax: +44 161 928 8069



This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. This communication represents the originator's personal view and opinions, which do not necessarily reflect those of the Concept Group. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the email to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this email in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing,or copying of this email is strictly prohibited. If you received this email in error, please immediately notify This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Hi John,

Hyphen is not a valid symbol in a set of TTCN-2 symbols /not part of TTCN-2
language, not part of TTCN-2 identifier/.
It is only allowed in embedded ASN.1 for ASN.1 keywords: ABSTRACT-SYNTAX and
TYPE-IDENTIFIER.
That's why hyphens should be replaced by underscore for all identifiers
whenever the occurence of underscore may arise.

This comes only from ASN.1 language and affects:
- imported ASN.1 identifiers, type references and value references;
- ASN.1 ASP Type Definitions By Reference,
- ASN.1 PDU Type Definitions by Reference,
- identifiers within ASP Type Definitions using ASN.1, PDU Type Definitions
using ASN.1, CM Type Definitions using ASN.1,
- and also all constraints based on these types.
That is all which comes to TTCN-2 from ASN.1.

Since hyphen is not allowed in TTCN-2 identifiers this is also valid:
"When parsing TTCN.MP, any symbol not allowed within an identifier may
denote the end of an identifier."
This means that hyphen is always treated as additive operator, unary
operator or OMIT symbol.

I did not checked if the two exceptional keywords can be used inside
mentioned ASN.1 parts of TTCN-2.
I think it is enough to implement simple forward recognition after minus
symbol to check if 'SYNTAX' and 'IDENTIFIER' follow
first part of ASN.1 keywords: "ABSTRACT" or "TYPE". In this way keywords
willbe properly recognized.
As I know no extra spaces for minus symbol are required in TTCN-2.

I think conversion from hyphen to underscore is done mainly for treating
ASN.1 identifiers and ASN.1 structures like TTCN-2 own
declarations. Since they are referenced inside TTCN-2, the naming convention
is also valid for them.

I have question for you as the ASN.1 Rapporteur:
Could you please look for definition of 'ExtensionAdditionAlternatives' in
X.680.
It is defined twice so a little correction is needed in my opinion.

ExtensionAdditionAlternatives ::= "," ExtensionAdditionAlternativesList |
empty
ExtensionAdditionAlternatives ::= "" AlternativeTypeList ""

BR,
Mariusz Kupiec


From TR 101 666 V1.0.0 (1999-05):

---

TTCN-2 identifier definition:
736 Identifier ::= Alpha{AlphaNum | Underscore | DoubleColon}
/* STATIC SEMANTICS - All Identifiers referenced in a TTCN test suite shall
be explicitly declared in the test suite,
explicitly declared in an ASN.1 type definition referenced by the test suite
or be a TTCN predefined identifier. */

A.4.2 Uniqueness of identifiers
In some cases test suites may make references to items defined in other OSI
standards. In particular, references to
ASN.1 type definition modules according to ISO/IEC 8824-1: 1994 may be made
in the type definitions. Names from
those modules (such as identifiers of subfields within structured ASN.1 type
definitions) may be used throughout the test
suite.
Since the rules for identifiers in ASN.1 and TTCN conflict, the following
conventions apply:
type references, module identifiers and value references made within the
various ASN.1 type definitions tables shall
comply to the requirements for identifiers defined in ISO/IEC 8824-1: 1994;
for identifiers used within the other parts of a test suite dash ( - )
characters shall be replaced with underscores( _ ).
Within some TTCN tables part of the ASN.1syntax can be used to define types
.In that case, ASN.1 rules shall be
followed for identifiers, with the exception that dash ( - ) characters
shall not be used. Underscores ( _ ) may be used
instead. All other requirements defined by ISO/IEC 8824-1: 1994 (e.g., Type
identifiers shall start with an upper case
letter, and field identifiers within structured ASN.1 definitions shall
start with a lower case letter) apply to TTCN test
suites wherever ASN.1 is used.

---

Original Message

---

From: "John Larmouth" <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
To: <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 6:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Fwd: ASN.1 Emquiry]


Thanks Gyorgy.

Are the hyphens also changed to underline in a $ASN1_... and
$End_ASN1... section as well?

(Just asking for completeness.)

John L

"Gyorgy Rethy (ETH)" wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Exactly this is the reason TTCN converts hyphens in identifiers to an
underscore. So the ASN.1 identifier "asn-idl" shall be imported and
referenced as "asn_idl" within TTCN (see subclause D1.1.1 in TTCN-3, ES 201
873-1) but it is the same in TTCN-2.
>
> Best Regards, György
> Szia, Gyuri
> ============================================
> dr. György RÉTHY
> Ericsson Communications Systems Hungary Lim.
> Conformance Center
> tel.: +36 1 437-7006; fax: +36 1 437-7767
> mobile: +36 30 297-7862
> e-mail: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
> intranet: conformancelab.ericsson.se
> personal: www.r.eth.ericsson.se/~ethgry
> ============================================

I'm sorry. My brainware autocorrection switched on too late ;-)

"That's why hyphens should be replaced by underscore for all identifiers
whenever the occurence of HYPHEN may arise."

BR
Mariusz

> Mariusz Kupiec wrote:
>
> I have question for you as the ASN.1 Rapporteur:
> Could you please look for definition of 'ExtensionAdditionAlternatives' in
> X.680.
> It is defined twice so a little correction is needed in my opinion.
>
> ExtensionAdditionAlternatives ::= "," ExtensionAdditionAlternativesList |
> empty
> ExtensionAdditionAlternatives ::= "" AlternativeTypeList ""

This has been changed in the 2002 edition of the ASN.1 standards that
you can download from: ties.itu.int/ftp/asn1
(login: asn1, password: notation1)
--
Olivier DUBUISSON (ITU-T ASN.1 Rapporteur)
france telecom R&D

DTL/TAL - 22307 Lannion Cedex - France
t: +33 2 96 05 38 50 - f: +33 2 96 05 39 45 - asn1.elibel.tm.fr/

Thanks for your very full answer. On your query about ASN.1 BNF, this
problem has, I think, been identified earlier, and is corrected in the
2002 version. I will leave Paul Thorpe to confirm this.

John L

Mariusz Kupiec wrote:
>
> Hi John,
>
> Hyphen is not a valid symbol in a set of TTCN-2 symbols /not part of TTCN-2
> language, not part of TTCN-2 identifier/.
> It is only allowed in embedded ASN.1 for ASN.1 keywords: ABSTRACT-SYNTAX and
> TYPE-IDENTIFIER.
> That's why hyphens should be replaced by underscore for all identifiers
> whenever the occurence of underscore may arise.
>
> This comes only from ASN.1 language and affects:
> - imported ASN.1 identifiers, type references and value references;
> - ASN.1 ASP Type Definitions By Reference,
> - ASN.1 PDU Type Definitions by Reference,
> - identifiers within ASP Type Definitions using ASN.1, PDU Type Definitions
> using ASN.1, CM Type Definitions using ASN.1,
> - and also all constraints based on these types.
> That is all which comes to TTCN-2 from ASN.1.
>
> Since hyphen is not allowed in TTCN-2 identifiers this is also valid:
> "When parsing TTCN.MP, any symbol not allowed within an identifier may
> denote the end of an identifier."
> This means that hyphen is always treated as additive operator, unary
> operator or OMIT symbol.
>
> I did not checked if the two exceptional keywords can be used inside
> mentioned ASN.1 parts of TTCN-2.
> I think it is enough to implement simple forward recognition after minus
> symbol to check if 'SYNTAX' and 'IDENTIFIER' follow
> first part of ASN.1 keywords: "ABSTRACT" or "TYPE". In this way keywords
> willbe properly recognized.
> As I know no extra spaces for minus symbol are required in TTCN-2.
>
> I think conversion from hyphen to underscore is done mainly for treating
> ASN.1 identifiers and ASN.1 structures like TTCN-2 own
> declarations. Since they are referenced inside TTCN-2, the naming convention
> is also valid for them.
>
> I have question for you as the ASN.1 Rapporteur:
> Could you please look for definition of 'ExtensionAdditionAlternatives' in
> X.680.
> It is defined twice so a little correction is needed in my opinion.
>
> ExtensionAdditionAlternatives ::= "," ExtensionAdditionAlternativesList |
> empty
> ExtensionAdditionAlternatives ::= "" AlternativeTypeList ""
>
> BR,
> Mariusz Kupiec
>
> >From TR 101 666 V1.0.0 (1999-05):
>

---

>
> TTCN-2 identifier definition:
> 736 Identifier ::= Alpha{AlphaNum | Underscore | DoubleColon}
> /* STATIC SEMANTICS - All Identifiers referenced in a TTCN test suite shall
> be explicitly declared in the test suite,
> explicitly declared in an ASN.1 type definition referenced by the test suite
> or be a TTCN predefined identifier. */
>
> A.4.2 Uniqueness of identifiers
> In some cases test suites may make references to items defined in other OSI
> standards. In particular, references to
> ASN.1 type definition modules according to ISO/IEC 8824-1: 1994 may be made
> in the type definitions. Names from
> those modules (such as identifiers of subfields within structured ASN.1 type
> definitions) may be used throughout the test
> suite.
> Since the rules for identifiers in ASN.1 and TTCN conflict, the following
> conventions apply:
> type references, module identifiers and value references made within the
> various ASN.1 type definitions tables shall
> comply to the requirements for identifiers defined in ISO/IEC 8824-1: 1994;
> for identifiers used within the other parts of a test suite dash ( - )
> characters shall be replaced with underscores( _ ).
> Within some TTCN tables part of the ASN.1syntax can be used to define types
> .In that case, ASN.1 rules shall be
> followed for identifiers, with the exception that dash ( - ) characters
> shall not be used. Underscores ( _ ) may be used
> instead. All other requirements defined by ISO/IEC 8824-1: 1994 (e.g., Type
> identifiers shall start with an upper case
> letter, and field identifiers within structured ASN.1 definitions shall
> start with a lower case letter) apply to TTCN test
> suites wherever ASN.1 is used.
>
>

---

Original Message

---

> From: "John Larmouth" <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
> To: <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 6:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [Fwd: ASN.1 Emquiry]
>
> Thanks Gyorgy.
>
> Are the hyphens also changed to underline in a $ASN1_... and
> $End_ASN1... section as well?
>
> (Just asking for completeness.)
>
> John L
>
> "Gyorgy Rethy (ETH)" wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Exactly this is the reason TTCN converts hyphens in identifiers to an
> underscore. So the ASN.1 identifier "asn-idl" shall be imported and
> referenced as "asn_idl" within TTCN (see subclause D1.1.1 in TTCN-3, ES 201
> 873-1) but it is the same in TTCN-2.
> >
> > Best Regards, György
> > Szia, Gyuri
> > ============================================
> > dr. György RÉTHY
> > Ericsson Communications Systems Hungary Lim.
> > Conformance Center
> > tel.: +36 1 437-7006; fax: +36 1 437-7767
> > mobile: +36 30 297-7862
> > e-mail: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
> > intranet: conformancelab.ericsson.se
> > personal: www.r.eth.ericsson.se/~ethgry
> > ============================================

--
Prof John Larmouth
Larmouth T&PDS Ltd
(Training and Protocol Development Services)
1 Blueberry Road
Bowdon This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Cheshire WA14 3LS Tel: +44 161 928 1605
England Fax: +44 161 928 8069

Hi,

This has been corrected in the 2002 edition of ASN.1. The second
production named ExtensionAdditionAlternatives has been renamed
ExtensionAdditionAlternativesGroup to eliminate the duplicate production
names.

---

Paul E. Thorpe Toll Free : 1-888-OSS-ASN1
OSS Nokalva International: 1-732-302-0750
Email: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. Tech Support : 1-732-302-9669
www.oss.com Fax : 1-732-302-0023

On Thu, 28 Feb 2002, John Larmouth wrote:

> Thanks for your very full answer. On your query about ASN.1 BNF, this
> problem has, I think, been identified earlier, and is corrected in the
> 2002 version. I will leave Paul Thorpe to confirm this.
>
> John L
>
> Mariusz Kupiec wrote:
> >
> > Hi John,
> >
> > Hyphen is not a valid symbol in a set of TTCN-2 symbols /not part of TTCN-2
> > language, not part of TTCN-2 identifier/.
> > It is only allowed in embedded ASN.1 for ASN.1 keywords: ABSTRACT-SYNTAX and
> > TYPE-IDENTIFIER.
> > That's why hyphens should be replaced by underscore for all identifiers
> > whenever the occurence of underscore may arise.
> >
> > This comes only from ASN.1 language and affects:
> > - imported ASN.1 identifiers, type references and value references;
> > - ASN.1 ASP Type Definitions By Reference,
> > - ASN.1 PDU Type Definitions by Reference,
> > - identifiers within ASP Type Definitions using ASN.1, PDU Type Definitions
> > using ASN.1, CM Type Definitions using ASN.1,
> > - and also all constraints based on these types.
> > That is all which comes to TTCN-2 from ASN.1.
> >
> > Since hyphen is not allowed in TTCN-2 identifiers this is also valid:
> > "When parsing TTCN.MP, any symbol not allowed within an identifier may
> > denote the end of an identifier."
> > This means that hyphen is always treated as additive operator, unary
> > operator or OMIT symbol.
> >
> > I did not checked if the two exceptional keywords can be used inside
> > mentioned ASN.1 parts of TTCN-2.
> > I think it is enough to implement simple forward recognition after minus
> > symbol to check if 'SYNTAX' and 'IDENTIFIER' follow
> > first part of ASN.1 keywords: "ABSTRACT" or "TYPE". In this way keywords
> > willbe properly recognized.
> > As I know no extra spaces for minus symbol are required in TTCN-2.
> >
> > I think conversion from hyphen to underscore is done mainly for treating
> > ASN.1 identifiers and ASN.1 structures like TTCN-2 own
> > declarations. Since they are referenced inside TTCN-2, the naming convention
> > is also valid for them.
> >
> > I have question for you as the ASN.1 Rapporteur:
> > Could you please look for definition of 'ExtensionAdditionAlternatives' in
> > X.680.
> > It is defined twice so a little correction is needed in my opinion.
> >
> > ExtensionAdditionAlternatives ::= "," ExtensionAdditionAlternativesList |
> > empty
> > ExtensionAdditionAlternatives ::= "" AlternativeTypeList ""
> >
> > BR,
> > Mariusz Kupiec
> >
> > >From TR 101 666 V1.0.0 (1999-05):
> >

---

> >
> > TTCN-2 identifier definition:
> > 736 Identifier ::= Alpha{AlphaNum | Underscore | DoubleColon}
> > /* STATIC SEMANTICS - All Identifiers referenced in a TTCN test suite shall
> > be explicitly declared in the test suite,
> > explicitly declared in an ASN.1 type definition referenced by the test suite
> > or be a TTCN predefined identifier. */
> >
> > A.4.2 Uniqueness of identifiers
> > In some cases test suites may make references to items defined in other OSI
> > standards. In particular, references to
> > ASN.1 type definition modules according to ISO/IEC 8824-1: 1994 may be made
> > in the type definitions. Names from
> > those modules (such as identifiers of subfields within structured ASN.1 type
> > definitions) may be used throughout the test
> > suite.
> > Since the rules for identifiers in ASN.1 and TTCN conflict, the following
> > conventions apply:
> > type references, module identifiers and value references made within the
> > various ASN.1 type definitions tables shall
> > comply to the requirements for identifiers defined in ISO/IEC 8824-1: 1994;
> > for identifiers used within the other parts of a test suite dash ( - )
> > characters shall be replaced with underscores( _ ).
> > Within some TTCN tables part of the ASN.1syntax can be used to define types
> > .In that case, ASN.1 rules shall be
> > followed for identifiers, with the exception that dash ( - ) characters
> > shall not be used. Underscores ( _ ) may be used
> > instead. All other requirements defined by ISO/IEC 8824-1: 1994 (e.g., Type
> > identifiers shall start with an upper case
> > letter, and field identifiers within structured ASN.1 definitions shall
> > start with a lower case letter) apply to TTCN test
> > suites wherever ASN.1 is used.
> >
> >

---

Original Message

---

> > From: "John Larmouth" <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
> > To: <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 6:40 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Fwd: ASN.1 Emquiry]
> >
> > Thanks Gyorgy.
> >
> > Are the hyphens also changed to underline in a $ASN1_... and
> > $End_ASN1... section as well?
> >
> > (Just asking for completeness.)
> >
> > John L
> >
> > "Gyorgy Rethy (ETH)" wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Exactly this is the reason TTCN converts hyphens in identifiers to an
> > underscore. So the ASN.1 identifier "asn-idl" shall be imported and
> > referenced as "asn_idl" within TTCN (see subclause D1.1.1 in TTCN-3, ES 201
> > 873-1) but it is the same in TTCN-2.
> > >
> > > Best Regards, Gyrgy
> > > Szia, Gyuri
> > > ============================================
> > > dr. Gyrgy RTHY
> > > Ericsson Communications Systems Hungary Lim.
> > > Conformance Center
> > > tel.: +36 1 437-7006; fax: +36 1 437-7767
> > > mobile: +36 30 297-7862
> > > e-mail: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
> > > intranet: conformancelab.ericsson.se
> > > personal: www.r.eth.ericsson.se/~ethgry
> > > ============================================
>
> --
> Prof John Larmouth
> Larmouth T&PDS Ltd
> (Training and Protocol Development Services)
> 1 Blueberry Road
> Bowdon This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
> Cheshire WA14 3LS Tel: +44 161 928 1605
> England Fax: +44 161 928 8069
>

Hi,

For some stange reason I received this mail now only.

The situation in TTCN-2 and TTCN-3 is slightly different. In TTCN-2 a "TTCN name" shall be allocated by the test suite writer to each ASN.1 item imported. This "TTCN name" is independent of the ASN.1 identifier and shall not contain a dash (and naturally can be - but not necessary is - the ASN.1 name with dash changed to underscore).

In TTCN-3 the "TTCN name" can not be distinct from the ASN.1 identifier, but all dashes are changed to underscore. If all ASN.1 items from an ASN.1 module are imported (by the all keyword), it will be done automatically by the system. If only some ASN.1 items are imported (or excluded from being imported), then their names shall be listed by the TS writer in the import statement, but with underscore instead of dash (can be understood as a manual change in the name).

In both cases, within TTCN, no name with dash will be referrenced.

Best Regards, György

============================================
dr. György RÉTHY
Ericsson Communications Systems Hungary Lim.
Conformance Center
tel.: +36 1 437-7006; fax: +36 1 437-7767
mobile: +36 30 297-7862
e-mail: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
intranet: conformancelab.ericsson.se
personal: www.r.eth.ericsson.se/~ethgry
============================================


>

---

Original Message

---

>From: John Larmouth [This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.]
>Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 6:41 PM
>To: Gyorgy Rethy (ETH)
>Cc: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.; 'This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.'
>Subject: Re: [Fwd: ASN.1 Emquiry]
>
>
>Thanks Gyorgy.
>
>Are the hyphens also changed to underline in a $ASN1_... and
>$End_ASN1... section as well?
>
>(Just asking for completeness.)
>
>John L
>
>"Gyorgy Rethy (ETH)" wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Exactly this is the reason TTCN converts hyphens in
>identifiers to an underscore. So the ASN.1 identifier
>"asn-idl" shall be imported and referenced as "asn_idl" within
>TTCN (see subclause D1.1.1 in TTCN-3, ES 201 873-1) but it is
>the same in TTCN-2.
>>
>> Best Regards, György
>> Szia, Gyuri
>> ============================================
>> dr. György RÉTHY
>> Ericsson Communications Systems Hungary Lim.
>> Conformance Center
>> tel.: +36 1 437-7006; fax: +36 1 437-7767
>> mobile: +36 30 297-7862
>> e-mail: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
>> intranet: conformancelab.ericsson.se
>> personal: www.r.eth.ericsson.se/~ethgry
>> ============================================
>>
>> >

---

Original Message

---

>> >From: John Larmouth [This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.]
>> >Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 1:40 PM
>> >To: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
>> >Subject: [Fwd: ASN.1 Emquiry]
>> >
>> >
>> >I am not a member of this list, so please reply to me direct
>> >(and to the
>> >cc recipients of this message). Thanks.
>> >
>> >Whilst I am the ASN.1 Rapporteur, I do not know TTCN well
>> >enough to give
>> >a correct answer to the attached query.
>> >
>> >It is my guess that somewhere in the TTCN Recommendation it
>says that
>> >when ASN.1 identifiers are used in normal TTCN expressions,
>all hyphens
>> >in thos identifiers are converted to underscore. Thus in the
>> >example in
>> >the enquiry, "asn-idl" would always be asn minus idl, never an ASN.1
>> >identifier. (Note this causes no ambiguity because ASN.1
>does not use
>> >underscore.) I suppose it is also possible that TTCN requires
>> >white-space around the hyphen if it is to be treated as
>minus, but this
>> >seems less likely.
>> >
>> >John L
>> >
>> >--
>> > Prof John Larmouth
>> > Larmouth T&PDS Ltd
>> > (Training and Protocol Development Services)
>> > 1 Blueberry Road
>> > Bowdon This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
>> > Cheshire WA14 3LS Tel: +44 161 928 1605
>> > England Fax: +44 161 928 8069
>> >
>
>--
> Prof John Larmouth
> Larmouth T&PDS Ltd
> (Training and Protocol Development Services)
> 1 Blueberry Road
> Bowdon This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
> Cheshire WA14 3LS Tel: +44 161 928 1605
> England Fax: +44 161 928 8069
>
>

Hello All,

All is true what Georgy wrote about importing ASN.1 identifiers and about
hyphens in imported identifiers.
I only want to add 5 cents (more precisely eurocents ...;-).

> In TTCN-3 the "TTCN name" can not be distinct from the ASN.1 identifier,
but all dashes are changed to underscore.
> If all ASN.1 items from an ASN.1 module are imported (by the all
keyword), it will be done automatically by the system.

The exception are imported named numbers and named bits, which are
automatically converted according clause D.1.1.3, e.g.:
ASN.1:
LegCount ::= INTEGER { normal(2) excessive-with-hyphens(3)} -- ASN.1 type
definition with named numbers
TTCN-3:
const integer LegCount_normal:= 2, LegCount_excessive_with_hyphens:= 3;
// TTCN-3 constant definitions

// for named numbers

I have also editorial note for examples describing ASN.1 to TTCN-3
conversion examples in annex D.
Hyphen comments should also be converted to double slashes comments.
That is not done in all cases.

BR,
Mariusz Kupiec

---

Wielkanocne przysmaki... i 1000 innych przepisow.
polki.interia.pl/mistrzyni/

Why isn't this solution reused everywhere else?

---

Original Message

---

From: Mariusz Kupiec [This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.]
Sent: 19 March 2002 15:24
To: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Subject: Re: [Fwd: ASN.1 Emquiry]


Hello All,

All is true what Georgy wrote about importing ASN.1 identifiers and about
hyphens in imported identifiers.
I only want to add 5 cents (more precisely eurocents ...;-).

> In TTCN-3 the "TTCN name" can not be distinct from the ASN.1 identifier,
but all dashes are changed to underscore.
> If all ASN.1 items from an ASN.1 module are imported (by the all
keyword), it will be done automatically by the system.

The exception are imported named numbers and named bits, which are
automatically converted according clause D.1.1.3, e.g.:
ASN.1:
LegCount ::= INTEGER { normal(2) excessive-with-hyphens(3)} -- ASN.1 type
definition with named numbers
TTCN-3:
const integer LegCount_normal:= 2, LegCount_excessive_with_hyphens:= 3;
// TTCN-3 constant definitions

// for named numbers

I have also editorial note for examples describing ASN.1 to TTCN-3
conversion examples in annex D.
Hyphen comments should also be converted to double slashes comments.
That is not done in all cases.

BR,
Mariusz Kupiec

---

Wielkanocne przysmaki... i 1000 innych przepisow.
polki.interia.pl/mistrzyni/

Hi,

Sorry, 2 cents only...

I did not meant "distinct" in a very strong sence but taking into account the ASN.1->TTCN name conversion, of course. In the sence, that "asn1-idl" (in ASN.1) can not be anything else than "asn1_idl" in TTCN-3.

Yes, in TTCN-3 version 2.1.0 named numbers were converted to TTCN-3 constants. However this is deleted in the newest version 2.2.0 to avoid any possible name clashes (note, that when importing ASN.1 values assigned using named numbers and named bits, the value itself is imported but at the TTCN-3 abstract level it is irrelevant, how it was assigned in ASN.1). This change concerns test suite writers only if they want to use named numbers in TTCN-3 value assignments (e.g. in templates). In this case relevant constants have to be (re)produced manually in TTCN-3 (or in ASN.1 and importing them).

Best Regards, György

============================================
dr. György RÉTHY
Ericsson Communications Systems Hungary Lim.
Conformance Center
tel.: +36 1 437-7006; fax: +36 1 437-7767
mobile: +36 30 297-7862
e-mail: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
intranet: conformancelab.ericsson.se
personal: www.r.eth.ericsson.se/~ethgry
============================================


>

---

Original Message

---

>From: Mariusz Kupiec [This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.]
>Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 4:24 PM
>To: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
>Subject: Re: [Fwd: ASN.1 Emquiry]
>
>
>Hello All,
>
>All is true what Georgy wrote about importing ASN.1
>identifiers and about
>hyphens in imported identifiers.
>I only want to add 5 cents (more precisely eurocents ...;-).
>
>> In TTCN-3 the "TTCN name" can not be distinct from the ASN.1
>identifier,
>but all dashes are changed to underscore.
>> If all ASN.1 items from an ASN.1 module are imported (by the all
>keyword), it will be done automatically by the system.
>
>The exception are imported named numbers and named bits, which are
>automatically converted according clause D.1.1.3, e.g.:
>ASN.1:
>LegCount ::= INTEGER { normal(2) excessive-with-hyphens(3)}
>-- ASN.1 type
>definition with named numbers
>TTCN-3:
> const integer LegCount_normal:= 2,
>LegCount_excessive_with_hyphens:= 3;
>// TTCN-3 constant definitions
>
>// for named numbers
>
>I have also editorial note for examples describing ASN.1 to TTCN-3
>conversion examples in annex D.
>Hyphen comments should also be converted to double slashes comments.
>That is not done in all cases.
>
>BR,
>Mariusz Kupiec
>
>
>

---

>Wielkanocne przysmaki... i 1000 innych przepisow.
>polki.interia.pl/mistrzyni/
>

I think your question would need some clarification to be correctly answered.

Best Regards, György

============================================
dr. György RÉTHY
Ericsson Communications Systems Hungary Lim.
Conformance Center
tel.: +36 1 437-7006; fax: +36 1 437-7767
mobile: +36 30 297-7862
e-mail: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
intranet: conformancelab.ericsson.se
personal: www.r.eth.ericsson.se/~ethgry
============================================


>

---

Original Message

---

>From: Michael Gill [This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.]
>Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 5:09 PM
>To: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
>Subject: Re: [Fwd: ASN.1 Emquiry]
>
>
>Why isn't this solution reused everywhere else?
>
>

---

Original Message

---

>From: Mariusz Kupiec [This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.]
>Sent: 19 March 2002 15:24
>To: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
>Subject: Re: [Fwd: ASN.1 Emquiry]
>
>
>Hello All,
>
>All is true what Georgy wrote about importing ASN.1
>identifiers and about
>hyphens in imported identifiers.
>I only want to add 5 cents (more precisely eurocents ...;-).
>
>> In TTCN-3 the "TTCN name" can not be distinct from the ASN.1
>identifier,
>but all dashes are changed to underscore.
>> If all ASN.1 items from an ASN.1 module are imported (by the all
>keyword), it will be done automatically by the system.
>
>The exception are imported named numbers and named bits, which are
>automatically converted according clause D.1.1.3, e.g.:
>ASN.1:
>LegCount ::= INTEGER { normal(2) excessive-with-hyphens(3)}
>-- ASN.1 type
>definition with named numbers
>TTCN-3:
> const integer LegCount_normal:= 2,
>LegCount_excessive_with_hyphens:= 3;
>// TTCN-3 constant definitions
>
>// for named numbers
>
>I have also editorial note for examples describing ASN.1 to TTCN-3
>conversion examples in annex D.
>Hyphen comments should also be converted to double slashes comments.
>That is not done in all cases.
>
>BR,
>Mariusz Kupiec
>
>
>

---

>Wielkanocne przysmaki... i 1000 innych przepisow.
>polki.interia.pl/mistrzyni/
>

Gyorgy,
You are very charitable!
I intended to paste the comment into a totally different email.
Regards,
Michael

---

Original Message

---

From: Gyorgy Rethy (ETH) [This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.]
Sent: 19 March 2002 16:39
To: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Subject: Re: [Fwd: ASN.1 Emquiry]


I think your question would need some clarification to be correctly
answered.

Best Regards, György

============================================
dr. György RÉTHY
Ericsson Communications Systems Hungary Lim.
Conformance Center
tel.: +36 1 437-7006; fax: +36 1 437-7767
mobile: +36 30 297-7862
e-mail: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
intranet: conformancelab.ericsson.se
personal: www.r.eth.ericsson.se/~ethgry
============================================


>

---

Original Message

---

>From: Michael Gill [This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.]
>Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 5:09 PM
>To: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
>Subject: Re: [Fwd: ASN.1 Emquiry]
>
>
>Why isn't this solution reused everywhere else?
>
>

---

Original Message

---

>From: Mariusz Kupiec [This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.]
>Sent: 19 March 2002 15:24
>To: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
>Subject: Re: [Fwd: ASN.1 Emquiry]
>
>
>Hello All,
>
>All is true what Georgy wrote about importing ASN.1
>identifiers and about
>hyphens in imported identifiers.
>I only want to add 5 cents (more precisely eurocents ...;-).
>
>> In TTCN-3 the "TTCN name" can not be distinct from the ASN.1
>identifier,
>but all dashes are changed to underscore.
>> If all ASN.1 items from an ASN.1 module are imported (by the all
>keyword), it will be done automatically by the system.
>
>The exception are imported named numbers and named bits, which are
>automatically converted according clause D.1.1.3, e.g.:
>ASN.1:
>LegCount ::= INTEGER { normal(2) excessive-with-hyphens(3)}
>-- ASN.1 type
>definition with named numbers
>TTCN-3:
> const integer LegCount_normal:= 2,
>LegCount_excessive_with_hyphens:= 3;
>// TTCN-3 constant definitions
>
>// for named numbers
>
>I have also editorial note for examples describing ASN.1 to TTCN-3
>conversion examples in annex D.
>Hyphen comments should also be converted to double slashes comments.
>That is not done in all cases.
>
>BR,
>Mariusz Kupiec
>
>
>

---

>Wielkanocne przysmaki... i 1000 innych przepisow.
>polki.interia.pl/mistrzyni/
>

Hello,

First of all I am sorry György for changing your name.
Secondly I want to ask where I can download the latest TTCN-3 drafts.
Are the files
ES201873-1v220_GRv0.3.doc
BNFrev12_4 (12_2modif)_v02.doc
in
docbox.etsi.org/tech-org/mts/Document/mts/Inbox/
the latest working versions of TTCN-3 specs ?

BR,
Mariusz Kupiec

---

Original Message

---

From: "Gyorgy Rethy (ETH)" <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
To: <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 5:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Fwd: ASN.1 Emquiry]


Hi,

Sorry, 2 cents only...

I did not meant "distinct" in a very strong sence but taking into account
the ASN.1->TTCN name conversion, of course. In the sence, that "asn1-idl"
(in ASN.1) can not be anything else than "asn1_idl" in TTCN-3.

Yes, in TTCN-3 version 2.1.0 named numbers were converted to TTCN-3
constants. However this is deleted in the newest version 2.2.0 to avoid any
possible name clashes (note, that when importing ASN.1 values assigned using
named numbers and named bits, the value itself is imported but at the TTCN-3
abstract level it is irrelevant, how it was assigned in ASN.1). This change
concerns test suite writers only if they want to use named numbers in TTCN-3
value assignments (e.g. in templates). In this case relevant constants have
to be (re)produced manually in TTCN-3 (or in ASN.1 and importing them).

Best Regards, György

============================================
dr. György RÉTHY
Ericsson Communications Systems Hungary Lim.
Conformance Center
tel.: +36 1 437-7006; fax: +36 1 437-7767
mobile: +36 30 297-7862
e-mail: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
intranet: conformancelab.ericsson.se
personal: www.r.eth.ericsson.se/~ethgry
============================================

---

Wielkanocne przysmaki... i 1000 innych przepisow.
polki.interia.pl/mistrzyni/

Thanks Gyorgy, that is a succinct and good clarification of the issue.

John L

"Gyorgy Rethy (ETH)" wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> For some stange reason I received this mail now only.
>
> The situation in TTCN-2 and TTCN-3 is slightly different. In TTCN-2 a "TTCN
name" shall be allocated by the test suite writer to each ASN.1 item imported.
This "TTCN name" is independent of the ASN.1 identifier and shall not contain a
dash (and naturally can be - but not necessary is - the ASN.1 name with dash
changed to underscore).
>
> In TTCN-3 the "TTCN name" can not be distinct from the ASN.1 identifier, but
all dashes are changed to underscore. If all ASN.1 items from an ASN.1 module
are imported (by the all keyword), it will be done automatically by the system.
If only some ASN.1 items are imported (or excluded from being imported), then
their names shall be listed by the TS writer in the import statement, but with
underscore instead of dash (can be understood as a manual change in the name).
>
> In both cases, within TTCN, no name with dash will be referrenced.
>
> Best Regards, György
>
> ============================================
> dr. György RÉTHY
> Ericsson Communications Systems Hungary Lim.
> Conformance Center
> tel.: +36 1 437-7006; fax: +36 1 437-7767
> mobile: +36 30 297-7862
> e-mail: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
> intranet: conformancelab.ericsson.se
> personal: www.r.eth.ericsson.se/~ethgry
> ============================================
>
> >

---

Original Message

---

> >From: John Larmouth [This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.]
> >Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 6:41 PM
> >To: Gyorgy Rethy (ETH)
> >Cc: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.; 'This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.'
> >Subject: Re: [Fwd: ASN.1 Emquiry]
> >
> >
> >Thanks Gyorgy.
> >
> >Are the hyphens also changed to underline in a $ASN1_... and
> >$End_ASN1... section as well?
> >
> >(Just asking for completeness.)
> >
> >John L
> >
> >"Gyorgy Rethy (ETH)" wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> Exactly this is the reason TTCN converts hyphens in
> >identifiers to an underscore. So the ASN.1 identifier
> >"asn-idl" shall be imported and referenced as "asn_idl" within
> >TTCN (see subclause D1.1.1 in TTCN-3, ES 201 873-1) but it is
> >the same in TTCN-2.
> >>
> >> Best Regards, György
> >> Szia, Gyuri
> >> ============================================
> >> dr. György RÉTHY
> >> Ericsson Communications Systems Hungary Lim.
> >> Conformance Center
> >> tel.: +36 1 437-7006; fax: +36 1 437-7767
> >> mobile: +36 30 297-7862
> >> e-mail: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
> >> intranet: conformancelab.ericsson.se
> >> personal: www.r.eth.ericsson.se/~ethgry
> >> ============================================
> >>
> >> >

---

Original Message

---

> >> >From: John Larmouth [This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.]
> >> >Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 1:40 PM
> >> >To: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
> >> >Subject: [Fwd: ASN.1 Emquiry]
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >I am not a member of this list, so please reply to me direct
> >> >(and to the
> >> >cc recipients of this message). Thanks.
> >> >
> >> >Whilst I am the ASN.1 Rapporteur, I do not know TTCN well
> >> >enough to give
> >> >a correct answer to the attached query.
> >> >
> >> >It is my guess that somewhere in the TTCN Recommendation it
> >says that
> >> >when ASN.1 identifiers are used in normal TTCN expressions,
> >all hyphens
> >> >in thos identifiers are converted to underscore. Thus in the
> >> >example in
> >> >the enquiry, "asn-idl" would always be asn minus idl, never an ASN.1
> >> >identifier. (Note this causes no ambiguity because ASN.1
> >does not use
> >> >underscore.) I suppose it is also possible that TTCN requires
> >> >white-space around the hyphen if it is to be treated as
> >minus, but this
> >> >seems less likely.
> >> >
> >> >John L
> >> >
> >> >--
> >> > Prof John Larmouth
> >> > Larmouth T&PDS Ltd
> >> > (Training and Protocol Development Services)
> >> > 1 Blueberry Road
> >> > Bowdon This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
> >> > Cheshire WA14 3LS Tel: +44 161 928 1605
> >> > England Fax: +44 161 928 8069
> >> >
> >
> >--
> > Prof John Larmouth
> > Larmouth T&PDS Ltd
> > (Training and Protocol Development Services)
> > 1 Blueberry Road
> > Bowdon This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
> > Cheshire WA14 3LS Tel: +44 161 928 1605
> > England Fax: +44 161 928 8069
> >
> >

--
Prof John Larmouth
Larmouth T&PDS Ltd
(Training and Protocol Development Services)
1 Blueberry Road
Bowdon This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Cheshire WA14 3LS Tel: +44 161 928 1605
England Fax: +44 161 928 8069